Wednesday, December 10, 2014

The CIA, Torture, and the United States

Michael Hayden, former CIA head and Chief Torturer -Unindicted War Criminal - the smug smiling face of evil


I struggled with posting about yesterday's revelation about government approved torture.  But I just have to say something about our country's departure from our basic moral values.  See here for the CIA torture report.

I grew up believing that our country was different.  We were the "good guys."  We didn't torture prisoners.  Our government didn't lie to us.  We didn't imprison prisoners without bringing charges.  All the above I now know is wrong.  

So now we have joined the ranks of Inquisition era Spain, Nazi Germany, and Japanese torture of prisoners of war during World War II.  If you doubt what I say read about it here


Image from Abu Ghraib "enhanced interrogation"


I'll be frank with you folks, it sickens me to write about this subject.  

For several years now I knew and have often said our country was led by war criminals.  This isn't my judgement but actual reality. Former president George W. Bush, former Vice President Dick Cheney, former CIA director Michael Hayden, and others like David Addington and Douglas Feith.  They called these methods "enhanced interrogation." Torture is what was done.  Torture, not the Bush administration's euphemism for torture which they called "enhanced interrogation."  

This is all I'm going to say about this subject now.  Again, it sickens me to my stomach.  We're not that pure folks.  I thought we were better than just another country that tortures prisoners.  And the irony is that torture doesn't produce actionable information.  The irony is that by torturing our prisoners our country is now less safe.  All we've succeeded in doing was making more enemies.  The pure stupidity of those torturing.  Torturing is the lazy way to try and find information and it never works.  NEVER.  If you tortured me I would tell you anything you wanted, even make up stories. Anything. 

I don't know how those involved can sleep at night.  Is that the way we would want our prisoners treated?  

Evil, pure evil.  They walk among us.


Former president Bush and vice president Cheney - war criminals


Douglas Feith - war criminal
David Addington - war criminal
John Yoo - the Justice Department official who created the "legality" of "enhanced interrogation" (torture) to give the war criminals cover

They smile even though they know what they did.  Destroyed America's moral values for nothing.  We're not the sanitized MGM, Norman Rockwell propagandized version of America we've all been spoon fed all our lives. So you can go to all your Christian churches and hear all about your good Christian values but this our some of our fellow Americans view and value other human lives and dignity.  We're no better than they are and we're just fooling ourselves if we continue to believe otherwise.

Just one more note, any one reading this that disagrees with my assessment and truly believe that we "do anything" to protect our country, how would you feel if one of  your children was in the service and captured by the enemy and treated this way.  You all right with that?  



15 comments:

  1. That fellow, Michael Hayden, was on MSNBC this morning and he said that the CIA had the tacit approval of the American people to do what they did? WHAT.THE.HELL? He went on to state since *we* had voted for George Bush and the members of the Congress and the Senate that we approved and had given them permission to carry on in this fashion.
    A) I didn't vote for George Bush. B) I can only vote for one Congressman and two Senators. WHERE in the campaign literature did they state that we will, on occasion, torture people? Where did it say that they were okay with torturing people to death?

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    1. the dog's mother,
      I watched Hayden on "Morning Joe" yesterday. What a convoluted argument he gave for his justification of torture which he continues to call "enhanced interrogation" (such an antiseptic description for the evil and brutality of their actions). And I do resent saying "we" voted for George Bush. I didn't vote for him. Thank God President Obama but a stop to the torture immediately when he came into office. We have war criminals living free in this country today who are now on TV bragging about their evilness. What a place we are in now. This wasn't the way I was brainwashed when I was growing up that America didn't torture.
      Ron

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  2. Only the self-deluded can have been surprised at the findings, Ron. I won't say anything about the American participation in this ghastly saga but a lot of us here are feeling cheated that the British government (and others, no doubt) have got findings of their own connivance in torture and degrading treatment removed from the report on grounds of 'security'. In fact I hear that there were actually over 5,000 pages not published for various reasons. (I know that there are a significant of Republicans who think the entire report should have been withheld from the public.) If what we now know for certain DID go on it just beggars the imagination to think what else there was (and still is) happening that we DON'T know about.

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    1. Ray,
      Unfortunately there are a lot of self deluded people in this country who think torture is perfectly alright, unless of course if one of their loved ones were captured and held by the enemy and tortured. One of the lamest arguments I have ever heard is equating our former government approved policy of torture with the drone attacks. Apple and oranges. World War II, bombs were dropped over Germany to end the war. The atom bomb was dropped on Japan twice. Thousands of innocent civilians were killed. Nazi Germany tortured its prisoners. Japan tortured its prisoners. Yet I haven't heard the apologizers for today's war criminals equate our bombing innocent civilians during World War II with Nazi and Japanese torturers. This just goes to show you how deluded today's apologists for the war criminals are brainwashed by the Fox News propaganda. They walk among us Ray, they walk among us convinced that they are justified in the most inhuman actions.
      Ron

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    2. I know, Ron. And the ultimate self-justification for these present-day acts? Why, 'religion' of course. It's hardly exclusively only one side.

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  3. I saw a poll yesterday that said 63% of Americans think torture is necessary.
    I was about ready to vomit, when i saw it was a FoxNews poll, but still ....

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    1. Bob,
      That's the really sad fact, a lot of Americans approve of this torture and actually think it provides results. These are the same people who get all "Christian" and moral when their loved ones are prisoners and tortured. I have no feeling for them. Even so, torture is not right for anyone., even our enemies.
      Ron

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  4. I agree with you, Ron. 100%. Torture is torture, period. I've been disgusted since the first Abu Ghraib leaks occurred. Heads should roll. We wonder why the US has lost so much respect in the rest of the world - this is why.

    Of course, other countries are as bad if not worse (at least we didn't cut off anyone's head), they just don't air their dirty laundry in the international press.

    Peace <3
    Jay

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    1. Jamie,
      When i saw the first Abu Ghraib picture I was sickened. I could not believe our country would condone such a thing. But they did and got caught. Then they threw some low level functionaries under the bus and thought they would get away with it. Now they're caught again and bragging about torturing and claiming they stopped future terrorist acts. Prove it I say. Of course they can't.
      The U.S. has lost so much during the reign of terror of Bush-Cheney. It will take years to recover.
      Ron

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  5. Ron,
    For all of it's condemnation of human rights, this country has certainly lost face with the rest of the free world. That's not to say that other countries do not participate in torture in the name of freedom but when you really think about it, what was done since 911 puts the USA in the same category as China and North Korea. Prisoners of war are still human beings and should be treated as such. Just my humble opinion
    Jack

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    1. Jack,
      We have certainly lost face with the rest of the world. We used to hold the moral high ground that we did not torture. Of course in the back of my mind I knew that there were always rogue elements in our country who are evil and would condone and participate in torture. But to think our elected officials would change the law to permit torture and then brag about torturing people sickens me. You're right that prisoners of war are still human beings and should be treated as such. And the irony is that little if no actionable information is obtained by torture. It's the lazy (and stupid) man's way of revenge. We should not torture. The war criminals who initiated this torture and participated in it and are now bragging about it should be prosecuted like any other war criminals but of course that will never happen. They should just shut up and consider themselves very lucky that they got away with a crime.
      Ron

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  6. Anonymous9:13 PM

    So I guess using drones is a better idea. No need to get info from them, just kill them and anyone near by. Cheryl

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    1. Apples and oranges Cheryl. We killed the enemy and civilians during World War II but we didn't equate that with torture like the Nazis tortured. Your argument is tortured. Get this, the United States SHOULD NOT TORTURE. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you and all others like you who are blind to that basic fact.
      Ron

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  7. I was listening to the news and thinking war criminals.

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    1. David,
      Anyone in our government who initiated, approved and participated in torture are war criminals. That is according to treaties we (the United States) has signed. War criminals. They're lucky that they're not being prosecuted. But they will go down in history as despoiling the American image and giving legitimacy to our enemies to torture our prisoners. It's just wrong all the way around. And the ultimate irony is that torture doesn't provide actionable information anyway. It's been proven time and time again. Of course those to approved and participated in torture will try and legitimize their evil actions.
      Ron

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